I met Robin and Cat for breakfast yesterday to dissect Robin's dating life. Robin is very smart, has an awesome job, is gorgeous, has a great apartment downtown, is very witty ... and finds the douchiest guys to date. She probably wouldn't say that she dates the douchiest guys; however, as her best friend, I feel I have the right to be protective of her. I met Robin when I was 7 years old so it's possible that I have unrealistically high standards for the guys she dates.
So. Robin's dating life. She is facing a dilemma and has given me permission to share it in the hopes that someone can shed some light on the situation.
Robin started dating "Burt" a few weeks ago. They have no history together; they met through work (though they don't work together) a few weeks ago and he asked her out. He took her to a nice restaurant (which he chose) and then when the bill came, he asked her to split it with him.
Here's where Robin and I disagree.
I am a fan of splitting the bill on the first date. I feel like it removes any pressure and/or expectations from the person who isn't paying. Robin feels like the person who does the asking should do the paying.
Anyway. She split the bill with him.
Her dilemma is that every time she's seen him since (a few dinners and lunches) he has made an issue of the bill. Either asking her outright to split the bill with him or making a big deal out of the fact that he paid the bill (one time. He has paid the entire bill one time and was really ungracious about it.)
Here's where Robin and I agree.
Robin doesn't feel like the guy she's dating should pick up the bill every single time. She's more than capable of paying her own way. She's a very generous person and loves to treat people. Her issue is that Burt has removed that aspect of treating each other from their relationship. (Not that they have a relationship relationship yet but "courtship" sounded douchey.) She likes to feel wooed. She likes to be treated and she likes to treat the people she cares about.
Robin was undecided about Burt. She liked him alright but money can be a really big issue in relationships. It seemed like a bad sign that money was already an issue. I had advised Robin to give Burt a chance. He seems like a good guy on paper. And then ... Friday happened.
Burt asked Robin out for lunch but she was really busy so she suggested they meet for a quick coffee. She grabbed a handful of change on the way out of the office but when she went to pay for the coffees she was $1 short. She asked Burt if he had any change and he said no, he would pay for the coffees with his debit card. And then he took $4 from Robin's hand (she had her hand out because she was sorting the change.) The 2 coffees came to $8 and he took $4 in change from Robin. Exactly half. He split the bill. For coffee.
This is the last straw, right? She should give Burt the axe, yes? I mean, he's either extremely cheap or he's setting some pretty firm "friend" boundaries.
Thoughts, comments, suggestions, advice all welcome!
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i vote DTMFA (Dump the MF'er already...)
ReplyDeleteShe needs to lose the douchebag. Instantly. If he's going to be that ridiculous about just a simple coffee?! No way. Not worth it at all.
ReplyDeleteDONE.
ReplyDeleteThere's a difference between asking on a first date if you're more comfortable splitting the bill - NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT - and yanking money out of someone's hand.
He's over.
As a guy, I think this is a little weird. I mean, I don't mind paying for dates and usually do - especially the first few. I only split if the woman suggests it. once I'm in the relationship, usually the girl likes to pay sometimes too or at least split it. I'm sure I probably end up paying more but whatever. The women I have dated have always liked to feel more like an equal and they felt contributing was an important way to denote this. *shrug*
ReplyDeleteI think it's weird that Burt has been handling things this way, as it seems like he doesn't like to treat or pay for his dates ever. I would say she should bring this up to him at some point well before they are at a restaurant again and find out why Burt does this. Communication is key. Or, she should just dump him.
Drop the Ax. She has given him enough time to get over any money awkwardness and now he is just being strange.
ReplyDeleteI can only imagine the problems over larger financial issues...
I say wait and see. Maybe he is misinterpreting something, or perhaps received some bad advice regarding this.
ReplyDeleteWhat difference does it make if she goes out a few more times?
Unless of course she doesn't want to.
Although I am 100% into splitting the bill on the first few dates, I agree that if he asked her out on the first date, he should have picked up the whole bill. Beyond that, this guy sounds like a dick, and more trouble than he's worth. I think she'd be better off in the long run to cut her losses and not waste anymore time with this dude. There are SO MANY fish in the sea, and some of them aren't cheap.
ReplyDeleteare you SERIOUS? that's... insane. of burt, i mean. i'm all for splitting - i either suggest we split the bill, or take turns paying - but i like it to be a CHOICE, not a MANDATE because the guy i'm seeing will NEVER EVER treat me to anything, not even coffee. are you freaking kidding me?
ReplyDeleteif she really likes him and sees a lot of potential aside from this one issue, i'd suggest she bring it up with him. maybe as a sort of joke, but see what he says about it. like next time they go for coffee/lunch and he does the TOTAL EXACT SPLIT routine, i'd jokingly say "you're awfully serious about the whole going dutch thing.. is there a date limit before we're allowed to treat each other to meals?" i'm bad at confrontation, so i need to pretend i'm being jokey about it. but it still should elicit SOME response you know?
What Alice said, except for the jokey part; I am totally fine with the confrontation because I am not a fan of wasting time.
ReplyDeleteMy gut says DOUCHE and to run for the hills but if there is something else redeeming about him, I'd say ask flat out what the deal is and go from there.
This is an easy one: DUMP HIM. Let me put it this way, my boyfriend who is a poor student and sub-teaches part time manages to treat me to not only coffee but dinner as well.
ReplyDeleteShe needs to dump him. I can already see she's way too good for this moron. What a fracking butthead he is.
I'll be the first to say that people should split the bill when they don't yet know each other. I'm one of the few progressive people out there when it comes to dating and bills.
ReplyDeleteHaving said that, I think there's such thing as energy between a couple. And if he's making such a big deal out of paying (or not paying more than his half) and it's an issue each and every time they get together, then either one of two things needs to happen. She needs to talk to him about it (assuming she genuinely likes everything else about the guy) to find out what his real motivations are or she needs to walk away (if there are other issues on the table and this is only one of them, well, chalk it up to bad chemistry).
Burt's a douche. I wouldn't treat a friend that way, let alone someone I was dating. This is not to say he should be expected to always pick up the tab, but acting all ungracious and nit-picky about it? Not cool.
ReplyDeleteIf it's annoying her now, it's only going to continue to annoy her for years to come.
ReplyDeleteAnd as for the title of the post: you can't go wrong with a poly blend swimsuit. Those things last forever, no matter how much chlorine you throw at them!
He's a douchebag. WHO DOES THAT?
ReplyDeleteHe needs to go. I'm all for splitting bills, and treating my fiance occasionally, but splitting it down the line like that is too much. He can't treat a girl for a cup of coffee?? Come on!!
ReplyDeleteHe's a tool.
ReplyDeleteNo one does that! Weird!
What's that little cane thingy they used to bring out on Vaudeville shows to yank the sucky people off the stage? That's what Robin needs. One of those cane thingies.
ReplyDeleteBurt stinks. Peeee-uewwww.
I agree with JT. It's really the big deal he makes/bad energy surrounding the situation rather than the situation itself (for me anyhow).
ReplyDeleteMassive, massive, massive douche. Should have ended things after the first date.
ReplyDeleteDOUCHE.
ReplyDeleteYuck. I hate that behavior. I'm in the he should've treated on the first date camp, but whatever. Splitting is fine. But the coffee? People get weird about money, but this everything has to be even-steven makes me wonder...if she sleeps with him, is he going to say that if she has multiple orgasms, she owes him X number?
ReplyDeleteIt's obviously stressing her out at the moment, which only means that it's going to get worse the longer the "courtship" goes one. Time to cut bait.
ReplyDeleteI'm also in her camp on 1st dates.
Oh.. I dunno.. I feel a titch bad for Burt! Given that this is their first encounter with a money issue, I assume maybe she doesn't know much about his financial situation? Maybe he's struggling? Or maybe he came previously from a relationship with a very adamantly 50/50 split the bill always girl? I'd ask!
ReplyDeleteDude, my friends and I don't even nickel and dime each other like that.
ReplyDeleteblech.
if he's being such a dick about money already then it's only going to get worse as the relationship goes on. In the wise, wise words of Dan Savage, DTMFA.
ReplyDeleteWell, if she likes the guy, I think she should bring it up, either jonkingly or seriously, but at least bring it up and clear the air.
ReplyDeleteIf not, GET RID OF HIM!!!
I read this to Bryan and he said DUMP HIM. Splitting dinner is fine (although we both agree the asker should pay on the first date), but getting petty about $4? Yikes! Either he's super poor or super controlling. Not good either way. I feel like I'd pay for a total stranger's coffee if he/she were short - I can't imagine taking money from a date!
ReplyDeleteDump. Without a doubt. Asker should pay on the first date. Then maybe the person who was treated can pay the next. Split a few if you like. His obsessiveness about the bill freaks me out. And taking her $4 in change? Goodbye, loser.
ReplyDeleteI don't think this makes him a total douchebag or anything, like some people are saying. But yeah, she needs to ditch him.
ReplyDeleteI'm all about egalitarianism in dating, but to make such a big damn deal about money every single time. It's not worth it. It will always be a problem for them.
If he can't buy her a coffee when she's a buck short, then wow, he's all about making everything even all the time. And that gets old. If she pays for something sometime is he going to going to add it to his spreadsheet and make sure they're even?
So not worth it. Lose him. And maybe explain to him why - maybe he has no idea how obnoxious and unnecessary this behavior is.
Okay, I'll preface what I'm about to say with a statement that I'm notorious for giving people too many chances, so take this with a grain of salt if you like, but nonetheless I stick by what I have to say: it sounds to me like you are all making assumptions by saying that he'll just be a douche on other issues or that this one issue will only get worse if he's already acting this way now. The only way to find out if that's true is to talk to him about it and see how he reacts.
ReplyDeleteNow, whether or not it's WORTH talking to him about it is another matter entirely. I would say that this behaviour of his is weird and definitely a red flag, but if it's the only problem and he's otherwise awesome, I would talk to him about it if I were your friend and tell him that it bothers her and she's not sure what to make of it. That she's more than happy to treat him some of the time and it would be nice if he would do the same sometimes; that that's much less stressful and awkward than doing calculations at the table and splitting everything down the middle.
If he reacts poorly though, I'd cut him so fast he wouldn't know what hit him. But if he is willing to talk it out and change his behaviour then maybe there's still some potential there.
If, however, she's not really that into him or he has other red flags as well, I don't think I'd bother with the conversation, I'd just ditch him.
Maybe a way for her to test the waters with him would be for her to offer to pay for their bill the next time they're out. She could be really cool about it, really nonchalant and see what his reaction is. If he reacts questioning her, she can be like "Oh, it's not a big deal- you can catch us next time!" and see what he does.
ReplyDeleteThat way, instead of waiting for the desired behavior to happen she can give him an example of it. Maybe he'll take the hint & get with it?
Either way, he's definitely acting a little odd
The bottom line is that their values do not add up. She is generous for the sake of being generous. He is generous begrudgingly and with a chip on his shoulder. There is nothing wrong with splitting a bill and I don't believe someone has to pay just because they asked you out though I do think it is polite to offer to pay when you do the asking. But the power dynamic is already out of whack with these two. She should either ask him directly what the beef is with it or just walk. It indicates a major character flaw in my book if someone isn't gracious and generous.
ReplyDeleteP.S. I think I dated this dude. Ha.
ReplyDeleteAfter reading Laura's comment, maybe I was a bit harsh. She has a very good point. If this is the only issue that she has with him, then I agree with confronting him. Otherwise, she should get out of there.
ReplyDeleteDump his ass. That's just flat out rude. Since she's giving him another chance - maybe she should ask him about his deal. Because obviously, he has an issue with it. I think it's ridiculous -while I'm not for assuming a guy is going to pay for everything, it's impolite to bring it up, and unacceptable to bring it up on numerous occasions!
ReplyDeleteDump him.
ReplyDeleteAs you said, this is the "courtship" phase, where we're all supposed to put our best foot forward. If he's supposedly trying to be nice now, and he's being like this, I can't imagine what he's going to be like when he ISN'T trying to be nice.
Now, that being said, there might be some validity to the point of talking with him about this, but just make sure you're going somewhere that doesn't cost money, like the park. It could either be at a) he's obivious to his behavior and how it's coming across, or b) he's a cheap SOB.
Look at how cheap he is with coffee. What's he's going to be like if you're living together?
"Hey, I noticed you used my toothpaste this morning. That's going to be 37 1/2 cents. Do you want to pay me now or should I put it on your bill?"